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HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
which are exempt from payment of mili- tray contribution, cannot be held to be revenue in the ordinary sense but are really drawing upon our capital re- Sources. It is probable, therefore, that at the end of this year our balances will remain as they are at present and may even be slightly increased, but we shall have parted with some of our capital resources in the shape of Crown lands.
I, therefore, consider the suggestion that the Government is adopting & spend- thrift policy cannot possibly be sustained, and that the suggested policy of floating short term loans for paying for perman- ent public works would not be a wise one. The Bill, therefore, which is before you and the principle of which is to raise revenue, I hold to be entirely vindicated by our present position and with the amendments, which have been adumbrated by the Attorney-General will prove a measure which will inflict no sort of hardship upon the community.
Hts EXCELLENCY-It has been moved and secondled that the Bill intituled. An Ordin- ance to amend the Stamp Duty be read a second time.
On being put to the vote, His EXCEL- LENCY declared "The nyes have it."
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the Council go into cammittee to consider the Bi'l clause by clause.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Is this a DAJTOWN definition ?
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL - Yes, the limite it. The original form of the propos was to make all mortgages liable to fa duty, but it was pointed out that would unduly hamper a regular part of the banker's business, and, therefore, this exemption of letters of hypothecation a banker was inserted.
HIS EXCELLENOY-I think the intenti is to keep the exemption as narrow wi possible.
HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
ision as to calculation of duty is liable to alteration by the Governor in Council.
He EXCELLENCY-The first one is solutely general in character applying o the whole Ordinance and the second is articular.
TEE ATTORNEY-GENERAL-- Clause 6 a clause which deals generally with stamp uty and provides that the duty described in be schedule shall be paid on the instrument. Bab-clause (7) is drafted chiefly with a view Heading No. 11 in the schedule which the duty on bank notes. It is not Intended that bank notes should be tamped. The schedule provides that the HON. ME LAU CHU PAK-I do not bank note duty shall be paid to the col- press it.
ector by the banker on a statement made by the bank as to the average number of otes in circulation, and this sub-clause is meant to deal with that case, where the duty is not paid on an instrument
ut in some other way.
HE EXCELLENCY-If the hou, mosbet does not press it, I think we will keep to? the present clause of the Bill.
On sub-clausa 19, the Hos. MR. POLLOCKS said-You do not say that a marketable security should be a mortgage.
All the other sub-heads refer to documents deal! ing with securities.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Would it not ba better to put in a sub-head!
"
THATTORNEY-GENERAL-Thatmight|| be done if it would be more convenient. Tell amounts to the same kind of thing as a mortgage.
At the HON, MR. Pocock's suggestion it was agreed that sub-clause 19 should stand over in order that he might confer
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, with the Attorney-General on the subject and it was agreed to.
On sub-clause 29 relating to vesting On clause 3 the ATTORNEY-GENERAL orders, the ATTORNEY-GENERAL more moved to add the words any other that it be omitted from the Bill and this was, decree or order of any court" to sub-agreed to. clause 9. This was agreed to.
On sub-clause 15, Hos. MR LAU CHU PAK moved that the words cc with a banker" in the second line be deleted as otherwise any hypothecation to a person oner than a banker would have to be stamped as a mortage within the meaning of section 3 (19).
will stand over for further amendment HIS EXCELLENCY-Clause 3 of the Bil
if necessary.
On clause 4, HON. MR. LAU CHU PAR;, said-Regulations (c) and (d) Bermu necessary in view of section 5 (7) and! Bection 30 (3).
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I think the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Clause 4 (0) words ought to stand. I do not think (e) gives power to make regulations r other mortgage should escape merely giving directions R
to the manner is because they are made in that form. In which Any stamp duty is to be cl-3 the present schedule the limitation does culated or ascertained. The reference not, occur.
The present schedule reads regulations in clause 30 is intended t "letter or other instrument hypothecation." make it clear that that particular prof
H EXCELLENCY-This is of a special ature, and it is clear that it is of a pecial nature.
HON. MR. POLLOCK-One is a general power; the other a particular power.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Clause stands part
of the Bill,
Os clauge 3 Rulesection 5, HuN. MR. POLLOCK said-The learned Attorney Beneral has already pointed out that he proposed to make amendments to clause I think there is a similar amendment equired for this so as not make a person guilty of an offence simply if an instru- ent is not stamped, but to put in some Tovision with regard to his knowingly or wilfully authorising or committing the default. If this could stand over, per- aps I could confer with the Attorney- General. I think he would be willing to oncede that some provision of that sort is necessary.
EXCELLENCY This is a civil offence. HON. MR. POLLOCK-It is a criminal Hence.
Tak ATTORNEY-GENERAL The diff alty is this: the intention is to bind someone to see to it that the duty is paid; neglect in this case es in many others should be an offence. It is dangerous to leave the door open to evasion. I think that criminal
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liability ought to arise on mere neglect. There must be, of course, knowledge.
HON. MR. POLLOCK There is civil liability and also a penalty.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Civil liabi lity would be a totally inadequate remedy. You could only recover the actual duty
that on
particular transaction and nothing in respect of other evasions. It would be an invitation to everybody to evade the duty.
HON. MR. POLLOCK-Is there not a penalty?
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL-He could be sued for the duty, plus the penalty.
HIS EXCELLENCY (to Mr. POLLOCK)— What is it you propose 1
HON. MR. POLLOCK — Some words similar to those suggested by the Attorney- General in the case of clause 41 as in the Companies' Ordinance.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL In the Companies' Ordinance the company is always made liable for the default and the mere failure to comply. Mere neglect entails directors and partners are not liable un- a criminal penalty on the company; the less they are knowingly a party. I put it that there ought to be a liability on somebody to see that a document is stamp. ed and that there ought to be a penalty for neglect.
HON. MR. POLLOCK, as an instance of possible hardship, suggested that a banker's customer might fail to put the proper stamp on a cheque.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied that the banker did not issue the cheque form in that case.
HON. MR. POLLOCK suggested that he might discuss it with the Attorney. General and they night find some agreed form of language to provide that the penalty should fall on the person know ingly or wilfully evading the Ordinance.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I think the worling would be very dangerous. How are you going to prove that the man has done it wilfully.” Here you have a document which everyone knows ought to be stamped. You charge him with wil
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